1 00:00:04,081 --> 00:00:06,481 Can you offer any hope for the unemployed? 2 00:00:06,961 --> 00:00:08,857 I think it's going to be very difficult 3 00:00:08,881 --> 00:00:11,121 to get it down significantly in 1983. 4 00:00:12,001 --> 00:00:13,921 Drifters who've strayed to London 5 00:00:14,001 --> 00:00:16,961 in the expectation of streets paved with gold 6 00:00:17,041 --> 00:00:19,961 and beacon lights that would guide them to prosperity. 7 00:00:20,041 --> 00:00:22,217 You go to the Job Centre. "Well, where d'you live?" 8 00:00:22,241 --> 00:00:23,321 "No fixed abode". 9 00:00:23,401 --> 00:00:25,361 "Sir, we're sorry, we can't help you with a job". 10 00:00:26,441 --> 00:00:29,097 There's a growing army of younger people looking for work 11 00:00:29,121 --> 00:00:30,201 or a new life. 12 00:00:30,281 --> 00:00:31,801 What they need is a secure home 13 00:00:31,881 --> 00:00:33,841 with a job, but often they're denied either. 14 00:00:34,121 --> 00:00:35,657 The first thing that they find 15 00:00:35,681 --> 00:00:38,641 is that London isn't what it appears to be on television. 16 00:00:39,441 --> 00:00:42,321 They've often deliberately cut all links with the past 17 00:00:42,401 --> 00:00:43,961 and this makes them an easy target 18 00:00:44,041 --> 00:00:46,721 for exploitation by criminals or conmen. 19 00:00:47,201 --> 00:00:48,961 It's an increasingly violent place 20 00:00:49,401 --> 00:00:50,881 particularly for young people. 21 00:01:04,961 --> 00:01:07,641 - Come on, in you go. Come in. - Thank you. 22 00:01:07,681 --> 00:01:09,241 Love, Tilly's here. 23 00:01:11,081 --> 00:01:12,081 Just through here. 24 00:01:12,082 --> 00:01:13,082 Thanks. 25 00:01:14,961 --> 00:01:17,761 Oh, hey, Peter. Sorry to come so early. 26 00:01:19,121 --> 00:01:21,121 Just... give me two secs. 27 00:01:37,081 --> 00:01:38,681 There we go. 28 00:01:40,721 --> 00:01:42,921 They said there should be some cricket pads? 29 00:01:43,801 --> 00:01:44,801 Well, it's February. 30 00:01:46,001 --> 00:01:47,801 The boys won't need 'em until the summer term. 31 00:01:48,961 --> 00:01:50,801 I'll see them before then, surely? 32 00:01:53,721 --> 00:01:54,721 Let me get them. 33 00:01:57,241 --> 00:01:58,241 I'm sorry, Peter. 34 00:02:00,841 --> 00:02:01,881 It's not your fault. 35 00:02:03,281 --> 00:02:04,281 Ah... 36 00:02:04,961 --> 00:02:05,961 Thanks. 37 00:02:06,521 --> 00:02:08,201 Sorry again for the intrusion. 38 00:02:15,041 --> 00:02:16,961 Till, hang on a minute. 39 00:02:18,681 --> 00:02:19,761 Look, I... 40 00:02:21,441 --> 00:02:23,401 I know you're trying to be a good friend to Carol 41 00:02:23,481 --> 00:02:25,681 and... I don't want you to get in the middle. 42 00:02:27,361 --> 00:02:28,361 But... 43 00:02:28,801 --> 00:02:30,161 it can't keep going on like this. 44 00:02:31,201 --> 00:02:32,201 It's crazy. 45 00:02:33,881 --> 00:02:35,321 Whatever happened between me and her 46 00:02:35,361 --> 00:02:36,961 the boys have got nothing to do with it. 47 00:02:39,481 --> 00:02:40,481 Please. 48 00:02:43,321 --> 00:02:44,321 I miss 'em. 49 00:02:49,201 --> 00:02:50,281 I'll speak to her. 50 00:02:52,841 --> 00:02:53,841 Thank you. 51 00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:02,121 Morning. 52 00:03:02,441 --> 00:03:03,561 Anything on the overnight? 53 00:03:03,641 --> 00:03:05,961 Not much. Another burglary in Wood Green 54 00:03:06,041 --> 00:03:07,041 but that's about it. 55 00:03:07,161 --> 00:03:08,161 Any witnesses? 56 00:03:08,441 --> 00:03:10,241 It was only called in half an hour ago, Guv. 57 00:03:11,081 --> 00:03:12,801 Can you take a statement on your way home? 58 00:03:16,681 --> 00:03:17,801 - The boss in? - Yep. 59 00:03:20,681 --> 00:03:21,681 - Guv? - Yeah? 60 00:03:21,761 --> 00:03:22,761 Steve called. 61 00:03:23,401 --> 00:03:26,121 They've found suspected human remains in Muswell Hill 62 00:03:26,201 --> 00:03:27,401 in a... in a drain. 63 00:03:27,881 --> 00:03:29,681 - Remains? - That's what he said. 64 00:03:33,281 --> 00:03:34,401 Did he give you an address? 65 00:03:34,801 --> 00:03:37,641 Yeah, said "23 Cranley Gardens". 66 00:03:39,601 --> 00:03:42,201 OK, uh, if he calls again, tell him I'm on my way. 67 00:03:44,081 --> 00:03:45,241 I thought you were giving up? 68 00:03:45,601 --> 00:03:46,601 I am. 69 00:04:09,562 --> 00:04:11,162 Mr Cattran called this in. 70 00:04:12,161 --> 00:04:13,281 - Alright? - How do you do? 71 00:04:14,121 --> 00:04:17,601 I was telling the officer, I was called here last night because of a blockage. 72 00:04:17,921 --> 00:04:20,801 There was a lot more, but when I got back this morning, it had gone. 73 00:04:22,921 --> 00:04:24,921 - Could it have unblocked itself? - No way. 74 00:04:25,161 --> 00:04:27,041 You'd have to get in there and clear it by hand. 75 00:04:27,281 --> 00:04:29,001 Plus, one of the ground floor tenants heard 76 00:04:29,081 --> 00:04:30,801 someone rooting around here last night. 77 00:04:37,761 --> 00:04:39,361 Do you know how far the blockage goes up? 78 00:04:39,401 --> 00:04:40,401 About halfway. 79 00:04:40,441 --> 00:04:41,881 But the middle flat's unoccupied 80 00:04:41,961 --> 00:04:43,721 so it must have come from the top floor flat. 81 00:04:44,001 --> 00:04:46,321 He's the one that reckoned it was KFC last night. 82 00:04:47,441 --> 00:04:48,721 That has to be human, right? 83 00:04:51,281 --> 00:04:53,281 - Thank you, Mr Cattran. - That it? 84 00:04:54,641 --> 00:04:57,161 Uh, we'll contact you to come down the station for a statement. 85 00:04:58,241 --> 00:04:59,241 Right. 86 00:05:02,081 --> 00:05:03,521 Do you think he wanted a medal? 87 00:05:06,081 --> 00:05:07,081 What d'you reckon? 88 00:05:08,041 --> 00:05:09,681 Well, let's get them down to pathology. 89 00:05:10,081 --> 00:05:11,241 Confirm they're human. 90 00:05:12,801 --> 00:05:13,881 Is he home? 91 00:05:13,961 --> 00:05:15,241 At work, apparently. 92 00:05:15,321 --> 00:05:16,801 The Job Centre, Kentish Town. 93 00:05:18,761 --> 00:05:19,841 What d'you wanna do? 94 00:05:23,041 --> 00:05:24,161 Well, I guess we wait. 95 00:05:24,521 --> 00:05:25,561 Aye. 96 00:05:25,681 --> 00:05:26,961 I knew you were gonna say that. 97 00:06:05,401 --> 00:06:06,401 Dennis Nilsen? 98 00:06:06,761 --> 00:06:07,761 Aye. 99 00:06:08,121 --> 00:06:10,321 My name is Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay 100 00:06:10,401 --> 00:06:12,401 and this is Detective Inspector Steve McCusker. 101 00:06:13,201 --> 00:06:14,921 We'd like to talk to you about your drains. 102 00:06:15,761 --> 00:06:17,681 Since when were the police interested in drains? 103 00:06:19,841 --> 00:06:21,481 Let's talk about that upstairs, shall we? 104 00:06:23,201 --> 00:06:24,201 Alright. 105 00:06:26,801 --> 00:06:27,881 What's this about? 106 00:06:28,601 --> 00:06:31,281 Human remains have been found in the drains outside. 107 00:06:31,721 --> 00:06:32,721 Right. 108 00:06:34,121 --> 00:06:35,121 Come on in. 109 00:06:35,241 --> 00:06:36,481 Good girl, good girl. 110 00:06:37,121 --> 00:06:38,721 Don't worry, she's very friendly. 111 00:06:46,841 --> 00:06:47,961 Right, don't muck me about. 112 00:06:49,401 --> 00:06:50,761 Where's the rest of the body? 113 00:06:53,401 --> 00:06:54,401 In the cupboard. 114 00:07:13,601 --> 00:07:16,001 Dennis Nilsen, I am arresting you on the suspicion of murder. 115 00:07:16,961 --> 00:07:19,201 You do not have to say anything, unless you wish to do so 116 00:07:19,281 --> 00:07:21,641 but what you do say may be given in evidence. 117 00:07:24,361 --> 00:07:27,081 Don't let anyone up there 'til the pathologist gets here. 118 00:07:42,401 --> 00:07:44,241 So, are we talking about one body or two? 119 00:07:47,921 --> 00:07:50,681 Fifteen or sixteen, I think. 120 00:08:14,801 --> 00:08:16,041 So, what do we know? 121 00:08:16,641 --> 00:08:17,761 At least one victim. 122 00:08:18,161 --> 00:08:20,601 Partial remains found in a bin liner in his cupboard. 123 00:08:21,081 --> 00:08:22,881 A young male, judging by the torso. 124 00:08:22,961 --> 00:08:25,561 But going by the smell in the flat, I'd say there were a lot more. 125 00:08:25,641 --> 00:08:28,281 But there's no actual evidence of 16 bodies, is there? 126 00:08:28,441 --> 00:08:29,641 It's off limits 'til morning. 127 00:08:29,881 --> 00:08:30,881 Too damp. 128 00:08:30,921 --> 00:08:33,361 We've secured the scene, but apparently, we risk contamination 129 00:08:33,441 --> 00:08:34,481 if we go in too early. 130 00:08:34,681 --> 00:08:37,201 What he was saying in the car was pretty convincing, Guv. 131 00:08:37,841 --> 00:08:39,521 Why were you talking to him in the car? 132 00:08:40,281 --> 00:08:41,281 Well, I was just... 133 00:08:41,321 --> 00:08:43,721 What if he says that confession was given under duress? 134 00:08:45,161 --> 00:08:48,161 If he's telling the truth we're gonna have the eyes of the world on us. 135 00:08:48,481 --> 00:08:50,761 We have to do this by the book from now on. 136 00:08:53,721 --> 00:08:56,881 We need him to identify the remains before we can charge him. 137 00:08:57,721 --> 00:08:58,721 What do you reckon? 138 00:09:00,041 --> 00:09:02,761 I think we're gonna get a lot more bees with honey than with vinegar. 139 00:09:02,881 --> 00:09:04,001 Thank you. 140 00:09:07,601 --> 00:09:10,081 - Sorry for the late call, Ronnie. - No, that's OK. 141 00:09:10,761 --> 00:09:12,921 I'd like a few minutes with my client if it's possible? 142 00:09:14,281 --> 00:09:16,017 - We're doing it in there, are we? - Yeah, I thought it'd be 143 00:09:16,041 --> 00:09:17,721 a bit more comfortable for everyone. 144 00:09:24,761 --> 00:09:26,001 I'm Ronald Moss... 145 00:09:29,321 --> 00:09:31,921 This evening, two police officers entered your flat. 146 00:09:32,721 --> 00:09:34,401 There they found the remains of a man. 147 00:09:35,401 --> 00:09:36,641 Do you want to explain that? 148 00:09:39,201 --> 00:09:40,681 In what context? 149 00:09:43,241 --> 00:09:44,401 How did it get there? 150 00:09:44,961 --> 00:09:46,617 Have you searched the rest of the flat yet? 151 00:09:46,641 --> 00:09:48,801 We're in the process of that, as we speak. 152 00:09:48,881 --> 00:09:53,321 You'll find more in the, uh, tea chest in my bedroom 153 00:09:53,401 --> 00:09:57,001 and in the turned-up drawer in my bathroom. 154 00:09:57,041 --> 00:09:58,681 All in all, the remains of three people. 155 00:10:00,281 --> 00:10:02,041 In the car, you said that there was more. 156 00:10:02,121 --> 00:10:03,481 I must advise my client... 157 00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:05,681 195 Melrose Avenue, N2. 158 00:10:05,761 --> 00:10:08,521 There, you'll find the remains of 12 or 13 people 159 00:10:08,601 --> 00:10:10,441 dating back to 1978. 160 00:10:12,761 --> 00:10:14,681 It's actually a relief to get this off my chest. 161 00:10:22,521 --> 00:10:23,521 Thank you. 162 00:10:35,601 --> 00:10:37,361 Who do all these remains belong to? 163 00:10:37,441 --> 00:10:39,257 - I need a moment with my client. - No, it's OK. 164 00:10:39,281 --> 00:10:40,281 Uh... 165 00:10:41,281 --> 00:10:43,321 I'm afraid I don't... remember their names. 166 00:10:45,201 --> 00:10:46,201 None of them? 167 00:10:46,721 --> 00:10:48,761 Well, at the time, I'd only just met them, you know? 168 00:10:49,121 --> 00:10:50,441 Where did you meet them? 169 00:10:50,521 --> 00:10:52,441 All over. Bars, or on the street. 170 00:10:52,561 --> 00:10:54,241 Some, I just wanted to give a meal. 171 00:10:54,881 --> 00:10:56,841 London can be a lonely place sometimes. 172 00:10:57,681 --> 00:10:59,121 A friendly face goes a long way. 173 00:10:59,561 --> 00:11:00,641 So, they were homeless? 174 00:11:01,761 --> 00:11:04,521 Uh, some, because of the drugs, usually. 175 00:11:05,241 --> 00:11:06,681 It really is a disease. 176 00:11:06,761 --> 00:11:07,921 It's very sad. 177 00:11:09,161 --> 00:11:11,401 And this bloody government does nothing for them. 178 00:11:12,201 --> 00:11:13,401 Were they all male? 179 00:11:14,121 --> 00:11:15,041 Aye. 180 00:11:15,042 --> 00:11:16,362 How old were they? 181 00:11:16,441 --> 00:11:18,361 Well, some looked younger than others. 182 00:11:18,441 --> 00:11:20,721 Um, sorry, I'm not being very helpful. 183 00:11:20,801 --> 00:11:22,121 No, you're doing fine. 184 00:11:23,441 --> 00:11:24,441 How did you kill them? 185 00:11:24,641 --> 00:11:25,641 I strangled them. 186 00:11:26,481 --> 00:11:28,281 Where did these murders take place? 187 00:11:28,441 --> 00:11:29,441 In my house. 188 00:11:29,881 --> 00:11:31,561 Mostly in my bed, to be specific. 189 00:11:31,641 --> 00:11:33,241 So, they came home with you willingly? 190 00:11:33,321 --> 00:11:34,321 Yeah. 191 00:11:36,881 --> 00:11:38,081 Were they all homosexual? 192 00:11:38,641 --> 00:11:39,801 I don't remember asking them. 193 00:11:40,201 --> 00:11:41,841 Are you homosexual, Mr Nilsen? 194 00:11:44,761 --> 00:11:46,441 Well, uh... 195 00:11:47,001 --> 00:11:48,161 for the sake of convenience 196 00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:50,201 you should probably class me as a homosexual. 197 00:11:50,281 --> 00:11:52,401 If that's, uh, actually true, I'm not so sure. 198 00:11:52,721 --> 00:11:54,201 The three in Cranley Gardens. 199 00:11:54,361 --> 00:11:56,121 When did these murders take place? 200 00:11:56,601 --> 00:11:58,921 The most recent was three weeks ago. 201 00:11:59,721 --> 00:12:00,761 Um... 202 00:12:01,441 --> 00:12:03,201 the others, last year sometime. 203 00:12:05,641 --> 00:12:06,801 You kept them for a year? 204 00:12:08,081 --> 00:12:09,081 Aye. 205 00:12:09,601 --> 00:12:10,601 In pieces? 206 00:12:11,081 --> 00:12:13,681 No, no. The dissection is merely for disposal. 207 00:12:14,761 --> 00:12:17,561 It's the dirty platter after the feast, if you like. 208 00:12:18,361 --> 00:12:20,401 Now, in Melrose, it was simple because it was, uh... 209 00:12:20,481 --> 00:12:22,961 a ground floor flat, with space under the floorboards 210 00:12:23,041 --> 00:12:26,081 for storage and, uh, sole access to a garden 211 00:12:26,441 --> 00:12:27,801 when a clearance was called for. 212 00:12:28,241 --> 00:12:32,081 Yeah, no, I remember it, Melrose, when the bodies began to accumulate 213 00:12:32,161 --> 00:12:34,001 I knew there'd be a smell problem, so... 214 00:12:34,601 --> 00:12:38,281 uh, at the weekend, I'd take up the floorboards... 215 00:12:39,161 --> 00:12:41,601 and I'd get blinding drunk, so I could face it... 216 00:12:42,081 --> 00:12:44,641 and... put down sort of... 217 00:12:45,241 --> 00:12:47,641 black plastic, like a bin liner... 218 00:12:48,841 --> 00:12:51,321 for the mess, and then I'd start dissection... 219 00:12:52,001 --> 00:12:53,121 on the kitchen floor. 220 00:12:53,801 --> 00:12:55,681 I learnt if you make an incision 221 00:12:56,321 --> 00:12:59,201 just below the navel, you can pretty much get to everything 222 00:12:59,281 --> 00:13:01,281 without having to deal with the rib cage and such. 223 00:13:02,721 --> 00:13:04,601 But it was all, you know, trial and error. 224 00:13:05,241 --> 00:13:06,481 You buried them in the garden? 225 00:13:07,401 --> 00:13:08,601 No, I burnt them, um... 226 00:13:09,561 --> 00:13:11,441 I'd wrap them in an old piece of carpet 227 00:13:11,961 --> 00:13:14,241 and throw a tyre on top to hide the smell. 228 00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:19,801 I took no pleasure in cutting up people 229 00:13:19,881 --> 00:13:21,801 or boiling heads, or... 230 00:13:22,361 --> 00:13:24,081 you know, burning bodies. 231 00:13:24,161 --> 00:13:26,401 I did it because I had to. There was no more space. 232 00:13:26,481 --> 00:13:28,801 How many bodies did you have in the house at any one time? 233 00:13:30,841 --> 00:13:32,321 Well, I never did a stock check. 234 00:13:33,841 --> 00:13:35,521 Or ask their names, it seems. 235 00:13:36,561 --> 00:13:37,521 No... 236 00:13:37,522 --> 00:13:39,482 No, that I do regret, yeah. 237 00:13:39,641 --> 00:13:42,521 I wish I could remember their names to tell you now. I really do. 238 00:13:44,121 --> 00:13:45,961 I have to ask... 239 00:13:47,001 --> 00:13:48,241 why did you do this? 240 00:13:52,201 --> 00:13:53,961 Well, I don't really know, um... 241 00:13:56,721 --> 00:13:58,441 I was rather hoping you could tell me that. 242 00:14:11,401 --> 00:14:13,401 Take us through them all, one by one. 243 00:14:14,521 --> 00:14:17,241 With Number 3... he was a young-looking man 244 00:14:17,321 --> 00:14:19,841 I picked up at Euston Station. I was out on the piss that night 245 00:14:19,961 --> 00:14:20,961 drinking heavily. 246 00:14:21,241 --> 00:14:23,041 Next morning, he was dead on the floor. 247 00:14:23,241 --> 00:14:25,561 I remember... bits and pieces. 248 00:14:25,641 --> 00:14:27,361 I don't remember any violence at all... 249 00:14:27,601 --> 00:14:30,401 Whilst drinking in Soho, I got into a... 250 00:14:30,521 --> 00:14:32,481 a conversation with this Scottish guy... 251 00:14:32,561 --> 00:14:35,321 Number 11 was a skinhead type he had "Cut here" 252 00:14:35,401 --> 00:14:36,601 tattooed on his neck. 253 00:14:37,361 --> 00:14:39,681 He was boasting about his toughness, about his hardness... 254 00:14:39,761 --> 00:14:41,321 After killing him I just went to bed. 255 00:14:41,841 --> 00:14:44,201 End of day, end of drinking, end of person... 256 00:14:44,561 --> 00:14:45,961 The twelfth was a... 257 00:14:46,041 --> 00:14:48,521 I remember being sat on him, strangling him... 258 00:14:48,561 --> 00:14:49,737 ...and he said "my legs, I can't move my legs". 259 00:14:49,761 --> 00:14:50,817 I called him an ambulance... 260 00:14:50,841 --> 00:14:52,241 Number 14, I made him an omelette 261 00:14:52,321 --> 00:14:53,801 as he said he wanted something to eat. 262 00:14:53,961 --> 00:14:56,521 If it was the omelette that killed him or me, I'm not so sure 263 00:14:56,601 --> 00:15:00,121 but I don't suppose omelettes leave red marks on a neck, do they? 264 00:15:10,481 --> 00:15:11,481 What d'you think, Guv? 265 00:15:12,281 --> 00:15:14,641 I'm thinking there's a lot of words on those pages 266 00:15:14,721 --> 00:15:16,641 but not a lot of concrete evidence. 267 00:15:17,201 --> 00:15:18,321 You think he's lying? 268 00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:21,201 About the amount? 269 00:15:22,041 --> 00:15:23,041 Possibly. 270 00:15:23,641 --> 00:15:25,081 I dunno, Guv. There's something... 271 00:15:28,281 --> 00:15:29,281 I believe him. 272 00:15:29,961 --> 00:15:32,481 Well, let's get a victims' name and charge him. 273 00:15:34,401 --> 00:15:36,321 Right. I'd better update the yard. 274 00:16:04,681 --> 00:16:06,681 That's it, look surprised. 275 00:16:06,801 --> 00:16:08,921 That's it, sure. 276 00:16:10,121 --> 00:16:11,201 Bring that up a bit. 277 00:16:11,801 --> 00:16:12,801 What's this? 278 00:16:14,001 --> 00:16:16,561 Uh, this is the detective. Jay, right? 279 00:16:16,641 --> 00:16:17,641 Charlotte Proctor. 280 00:16:19,361 --> 00:16:20,401 You went to the press? 281 00:16:20,721 --> 00:16:22,377 Well, you seemed like you didn't believe me 282 00:16:22,401 --> 00:16:23,561 so I had to tell someone. 283 00:16:23,641 --> 00:16:25,841 Can you confirm the remains you found were human? 284 00:16:28,041 --> 00:16:30,401 Detective, have you arrested Mr Nilsen yet? 285 00:17:24,601 --> 00:17:27,721 Guv, I wouldn't... if I were you. 286 00:17:35,321 --> 00:17:36,481 How didn't we know? 287 00:18:22,761 --> 00:18:25,721 When I got there this morning, there was a journo 288 00:18:25,801 --> 00:18:27,521 a few doors down from Cranley Gardens 289 00:18:27,601 --> 00:18:29,081 with the drain guy from yesterday. 290 00:18:29,441 --> 00:18:30,921 That didn't take him long, did it? 291 00:18:31,321 --> 00:18:34,001 Right, media blackout from now on, boys. 292 00:18:34,481 --> 00:18:37,121 They get nothing from us, understood? 293 00:18:38,321 --> 00:18:40,881 Last thing we need is an early siege before we charge him. 294 00:18:41,001 --> 00:18:43,001 Uh, where are we at with everything else? 295 00:18:43,081 --> 00:18:44,481 Chris, did you search his office? 296 00:18:45,481 --> 00:18:46,681 We weren't allowed to. 297 00:18:47,201 --> 00:18:48,201 What do you mean? 298 00:18:48,202 --> 00:18:51,162 His colleagues said they couldn't believe he would do anything like this 299 00:18:51,281 --> 00:18:53,881 and if we wanted to search the office, we'd need to get a warrant. 300 00:18:53,921 --> 00:18:54,921 You're kidding me. 301 00:18:54,961 --> 00:18:57,041 Take down one of the bags we found in his flat. 302 00:18:57,121 --> 00:18:58,801 Maybe that would act as a warrant. 303 00:18:58,881 --> 00:19:01,841 - Anything else from the lab? - Bowen's confirmed strangulation 304 00:19:01,921 --> 00:19:03,577 - as the cause of death. - Well, that was quick. 305 00:19:03,601 --> 00:19:06,521 Yeah, well one of the pieces we took down had a ligature mark on it. 306 00:19:06,601 --> 00:19:08,841 Has he been able to identify anyone? 307 00:19:09,001 --> 00:19:11,481 No, not yet. So, all of this is irrelevant... 308 00:19:11,641 --> 00:19:12,961 until he gives us a name. 309 00:19:14,881 --> 00:19:15,961 He used to be a policeman. 310 00:19:16,681 --> 00:19:17,761 - What? - Where? 311 00:19:17,921 --> 00:19:20,801 In the Met. Willesden. Left in '73. 312 00:19:20,961 --> 00:19:22,001 Why did he leave? 313 00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:24,481 Nothing on file. He just left. 314 00:19:25,801 --> 00:19:26,841 Shit. 315 00:19:27,161 --> 00:19:28,201 Are you fucking with us? 316 00:19:28,401 --> 00:19:30,601 - Mr Chambers... - You're ex-police. 317 00:19:31,121 --> 00:19:32,601 You left that out last night. 318 00:19:32,801 --> 00:19:34,641 I didn't mention it because it's not relevant. 319 00:19:35,161 --> 00:19:36,161 Not relevant? 320 00:19:36,561 --> 00:19:38,657 No, I wasn't doing this while I was there, so it's not relevant. 321 00:19:38,681 --> 00:19:40,361 Not at the present time, anyhow. 322 00:19:42,081 --> 00:19:44,121 It's in nobody's interest for me to lie. 323 00:19:44,481 --> 00:19:45,481 Why did you leave? 324 00:19:45,961 --> 00:19:46,961 Homophobia. 325 00:19:48,041 --> 00:19:49,761 A name. Right now. 326 00:19:49,921 --> 00:19:51,641 Mr Nilsen, you don't have to say anything. 327 00:19:51,721 --> 00:19:53,081 Like I said to you last night... 328 00:19:53,841 --> 00:19:56,881 The last one was Scottish. He was saying how shite Scotland is in the winter. 329 00:19:57,321 --> 00:19:58,601 Scottish name... 330 00:20:00,601 --> 00:20:01,601 Stephen. 331 00:20:01,641 --> 00:20:02,641 It was Stephen. 332 00:20:03,001 --> 00:20:04,001 Stephen what? 333 00:20:07,401 --> 00:20:09,121 Oh, I'm sorry. I really don't remember. 334 00:20:11,641 --> 00:20:14,201 I think now would be a good time to pause the interview, anyway. 335 00:20:14,681 --> 00:20:15,881 No, let's keep going. 336 00:20:17,121 --> 00:20:18,161 - Steve? - Yeah? 337 00:20:18,241 --> 00:20:21,161 Get me a list of all Stephens reported missing from Scotland. 338 00:20:21,321 --> 00:20:22,961 That's gonna be a pretty long list, Guv. 339 00:20:23,081 --> 00:20:24,721 That's all we got. Do it. 340 00:20:27,841 --> 00:20:31,441 I want to help the officers and the men caught up in my mess. 341 00:20:31,681 --> 00:20:33,721 Mr Chambers, may I have a minute with my client? 342 00:20:34,161 --> 00:20:39,001 As I see it, a solicitor is here to advise and facilitate my legal rights. 343 00:20:39,081 --> 00:20:40,961 Am I correct? Huh? 344 00:20:41,041 --> 00:20:43,961 Then your advice should've been to tell the detectives everything. 345 00:20:44,601 --> 00:20:46,881 There's still a process, Mr Nilson. 346 00:20:49,521 --> 00:20:51,321 Mr Moss, I won't be needing you any longer. 347 00:20:51,961 --> 00:20:53,161 I don't advise this. 348 00:20:53,241 --> 00:20:55,577 No, it's my final decision. It's the only way we're gonna get to the bottom 349 00:20:55,601 --> 00:20:57,001 of this mess, once and for all. 350 00:20:59,961 --> 00:21:00,961 If you could. 351 00:21:03,121 --> 00:21:04,121 Please. 352 00:21:06,041 --> 00:21:08,641 - Mr Chambers. - Ronnie. 353 00:21:16,761 --> 00:21:17,761 Shall we carry on? 354 00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:24,201 I was at McDonald's on the way to Oxford Street station... 355 00:21:25,241 --> 00:21:28,201 he said he hadn't eaten all day. I mean, what was I meant to say to that? 356 00:21:28,721 --> 00:21:30,361 Um, he had blond hair. 357 00:21:32,321 --> 00:21:33,401 Well... 358 00:21:34,161 --> 00:21:35,281 so did some of the others. 359 00:21:36,321 --> 00:21:38,281 Stephen, blond hair, Scottish... 360 00:21:42,361 --> 00:21:43,961 I can't remember his second name. 361 00:21:45,161 --> 00:21:46,481 Just take your time. 362 00:21:47,481 --> 00:21:48,841 Take us through it again. 363 00:21:49,681 --> 00:21:50,721 You went home. 364 00:21:51,081 --> 00:21:52,121 What happened then? 365 00:21:52,401 --> 00:21:53,841 We drank, we laughed. 366 00:21:54,521 --> 00:21:57,041 I poured two large glasses of rum and coke. 367 00:21:57,281 --> 00:21:58,761 He said he didn't like rum. 368 00:21:58,841 --> 00:22:01,122 I said, "Well you didn't bloody well pay for it, did you?" 369 00:22:01,961 --> 00:22:03,521 Yeah. He had a nice laugh. 370 00:22:05,001 --> 00:22:07,361 I mentioned "Tommy", y'know, the album "Tommy"? 371 00:22:07,441 --> 00:22:09,681 He said he had never heard it, so I put it on... 372 00:22:11,561 --> 00:22:14,161 and watched as he closed his eyes and listened to it. 373 00:22:14,601 --> 00:22:17,761 I thought to myself, "You lucky bugger. Experiencing that for the first time". 374 00:22:19,081 --> 00:22:20,081 Yeah... 375 00:22:22,281 --> 00:22:24,041 I entertained no thoughts of... 376 00:22:25,161 --> 00:22:26,801 harming him. Well, you know... 377 00:22:27,041 --> 00:22:32,201 I had nothing but concern and affection for his future and the pain of his life. 378 00:22:33,881 --> 00:22:35,081 But you did strangle him. 379 00:22:36,801 --> 00:22:40,121 Afterwards, I noticed that his jeans were soaked with urine. 380 00:22:41,521 --> 00:22:42,521 So... 381 00:22:42,601 --> 00:22:44,801 I wanted to wash him clean, so I took his clothes off... 382 00:22:45,321 --> 00:22:46,321 and, er... 383 00:22:47,161 --> 00:22:50,441 I remember I had difficulty with his tight wet jeans 384 00:22:50,561 --> 00:22:53,081 but, soon, he was sat there, naked in my armchair. 385 00:22:54,441 --> 00:22:55,681 And he'd only urinated. 386 00:22:56,801 --> 00:22:58,921 He obviously hadn't had a square meal in a few days. 387 00:23:00,241 --> 00:23:04,641 He had deep cuts on both his wrists, you know, still open. 388 00:23:06,161 --> 00:23:08,241 So, he must have recently tried to commit suicide... 389 00:23:09,561 --> 00:23:10,681 and I... 390 00:23:11,841 --> 00:23:15,841 I very gently carried him through to the bathroom and put talc on him 391 00:23:15,921 --> 00:23:18,361 to make him look cleaner. He looked magnificent. 392 00:23:18,441 --> 00:23:20,361 It was like one of those Michelangelo sculptures. 393 00:23:25,161 --> 00:23:26,161 We need names. 394 00:23:26,162 --> 00:23:28,002 Mmm. I know you do and I am trying 395 00:23:28,081 --> 00:23:29,561 but some were a long time ago. 396 00:23:30,481 --> 00:23:32,081 Then stay with the last one. 397 00:23:32,481 --> 00:23:33,681 I said. Stephen. 398 00:23:33,761 --> 00:23:35,081 It's not enough, you know that. 399 00:23:35,521 --> 00:23:39,281 I mean, you remember so many details, there must've been a time in the evening 400 00:23:39,361 --> 00:23:40,881 he told you his full name. 401 00:23:43,801 --> 00:23:44,841 Look... 402 00:23:45,561 --> 00:23:47,441 all we want to do is corroborate your claims. 403 00:23:50,681 --> 00:23:52,601 It was definitely a Scottish name. 404 00:23:52,881 --> 00:23:54,441 We joked about that, it was... 405 00:23:57,161 --> 00:23:58,281 Like Fraser, or... 406 00:24:01,841 --> 00:24:03,561 Stephen... Sinclair, it was. 407 00:24:04,401 --> 00:24:05,441 Sinclair. 408 00:24:07,761 --> 00:24:08,801 You're sure? 409 00:24:09,561 --> 00:24:11,001 Aye. Stephen Sinclair. 410 00:24:13,281 --> 00:24:16,641 If this Stephen Sinclair was a drug addict, chances are he has a record. 411 00:24:17,081 --> 00:24:18,801 Record will have a photo and fingerprints. 412 00:24:18,881 --> 00:24:20,801 We can match those to what we found at the flat. 413 00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:24,721 He has given us the name, not to mention the torso in his flat. 414 00:24:24,801 --> 00:24:27,601 - Well, can't we just charge him, Guv? - And what if he's got it wrong? 415 00:24:27,881 --> 00:24:29,121 Or he's playing with us? 416 00:24:29,601 --> 00:24:32,841 Sinclair walks into our courtroom alive and well, and there goes the credibility. 417 00:24:32,921 --> 00:24:33,921 You know that. 418 00:24:34,761 --> 00:24:36,881 No mistakes, no shortcuts. 419 00:24:36,961 --> 00:24:38,441 We need to be good police. 420 00:24:38,801 --> 00:24:41,641 Peter, it doesn't feel right giving him the blue-ribbon treatment here. 421 00:24:43,521 --> 00:24:45,681 Whilst he's talking, we carry on treating him well. 422 00:24:46,641 --> 00:24:47,681 Understood? 423 00:24:47,801 --> 00:24:49,321 Yes, Guv. 424 00:25:02,441 --> 00:25:05,201 Is it necessary to still have Bleep here? It's been two days. 425 00:25:05,441 --> 00:25:07,121 Well, there's nothing we can do about that. 426 00:25:07,161 --> 00:25:09,481 She's an old dog. Sounds like she's in a lot of distress. 427 00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:11,857 Please. She's done nothing wrong. She doesn't deserve this. 428 00:25:11,881 --> 00:25:16,201 I'll see what I can do. We won't be starting until a bit later this morning, Mr Nilsen 429 00:25:16,281 --> 00:25:18,281 but Mr Jay thought you might be hungry. 430 00:25:20,161 --> 00:25:21,481 That's kind of him, thank you. 431 00:25:22,641 --> 00:25:25,121 Another thing. Have there been any newspaper reports about me? 432 00:25:26,881 --> 00:25:28,041 There was one, yes. 433 00:25:29,041 --> 00:25:30,161 Well, may I have a copy? 434 00:25:32,081 --> 00:25:33,081 I'll ask. 435 00:25:37,601 --> 00:25:38,881 Sinclair was young. 436 00:25:39,201 --> 00:25:40,481 He'd just turned twenty. 437 00:25:42,321 --> 00:25:45,841 Severe personality problems. Drug abuse. 438 00:25:48,361 --> 00:25:50,001 He really didn't stand a chance, did he? 439 00:25:52,121 --> 00:25:53,201 Gentlemen. 440 00:25:55,121 --> 00:25:57,001 Pretty grim viewing, I'm afraid. 441 00:25:58,001 --> 00:26:02,641 Well, as you can see, the dissection has been done to a high level of skill. 442 00:26:03,601 --> 00:26:07,161 It was actually quite simple to decipher which parts go with which. 443 00:26:07,601 --> 00:26:10,641 Uh, these are from the last victim. 444 00:26:12,961 --> 00:26:16,441 But his head has been boiled beyond all recognition. 445 00:26:21,401 --> 00:26:22,601 Can we fingerprint him? 446 00:26:23,601 --> 00:26:27,241 This last one, absolutely. The others, probably not. 447 00:26:27,601 --> 00:26:28,721 Too much decay. 448 00:26:29,521 --> 00:26:31,241 Would you care to know the cause of death? 449 00:26:31,761 --> 00:26:32,761 Strangulation. 450 00:26:33,201 --> 00:26:36,041 Well, he was strangled, that's true. 451 00:26:37,321 --> 00:26:41,401 But in the autopsy, we discovered his lungs were filled with water 452 00:26:41,481 --> 00:26:43,801 so, death was due to drowning. 453 00:26:44,721 --> 00:26:45,881 Why did he leave that out? 454 00:26:46,681 --> 00:26:48,721 Uh, there's something else. 455 00:26:49,561 --> 00:26:51,841 Tests show he had Hepatitis B. 456 00:26:52,601 --> 00:26:55,161 Quite a common disease with needle-using heroin addicts 457 00:26:55,321 --> 00:26:59,081 but if any police officer has been in its vicinity... 458 00:27:00,121 --> 00:27:02,001 they'll have to have a vaccination, I'm afraid. 459 00:27:02,401 --> 00:27:04,081 Oh, for fuck's sake! 460 00:27:07,681 --> 00:27:08,761 Thank you, David. 461 00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:51,001 It's Sinclair. 462 00:28:06,401 --> 00:28:10,961 Dennis Nilsen, I am charging you with the murder of Stephen Sinclair by drowning. 463 00:28:12,081 --> 00:28:15,481 You will now be taken to Melrose Avenue where you will identify the burn site 464 00:28:15,561 --> 00:28:17,961 of the other victims. Do you understand? 465 00:28:18,561 --> 00:28:19,561 Yeah. 466 00:28:20,001 --> 00:28:21,161 Come on. 467 00:28:26,321 --> 00:28:27,761 The press are outside. 468 00:28:29,841 --> 00:28:31,401 - Who? - Everyone, I think. 469 00:28:31,681 --> 00:28:32,801 I'll see what's happening. 470 00:28:32,881 --> 00:28:35,161 I'll go and speak to them, whilst you head out the back. 471 00:28:35,241 --> 00:28:37,041 No, they're out there, as well. 472 00:28:37,321 --> 00:28:38,521 Geoff, get the hood. 473 00:28:39,201 --> 00:28:40,961 No. I've got nothing to hide. 474 00:28:45,921 --> 00:28:47,121 Nilsen, over here! 475 00:28:48,041 --> 00:28:49,681 Nilsen! Nilson, look over here! 476 00:28:49,761 --> 00:28:51,617 What sentence are we looking at Detective? 477 00:28:51,641 --> 00:28:52,641 Give us a quote! 478 00:28:54,001 --> 00:28:56,801 On Wednesday morning, officers were called to an address 479 00:28:56,961 --> 00:29:00,001 to investigate suspicious fragments found in a drain. 480 00:29:00,561 --> 00:29:04,441 Upon analysis, they were proved to be human, and an investigation was opened. 481 00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:09,001 We have now charged a man by the name of Dennis Nilsen with murder. 482 00:29:10,921 --> 00:29:13,761 How many people do you suspect him to have murdered? 483 00:29:13,841 --> 00:29:16,241 We won't be revealing the number at this time. 484 00:29:16,321 --> 00:29:19,241 Can you at least say what gender he is suspected of killing? 485 00:29:20,121 --> 00:29:21,121 Men. 486 00:29:21,161 --> 00:29:23,921 When did Nilsen start this... unusual habit? 487 00:29:23,961 --> 00:29:27,921 Five years, but can you make sure you attribute the term "unusual habit" 488 00:29:28,001 --> 00:29:30,201 to Mr Wells and not myself, please? 489 00:29:30,281 --> 00:29:33,921 Inspector, how can somebody kill for five years without the police knowing? 490 00:29:34,401 --> 00:29:37,241 We will be investigating that at the relevant time. 491 00:29:37,361 --> 00:29:38,601 That's all, thank you. 492 00:29:38,681 --> 00:29:41,681 Inspector, do you feel you let the people of Muswell Hill down? 493 00:30:03,601 --> 00:30:05,321 Ah, it's strange being back here. 494 00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:11,001 I remember summers here. 495 00:30:13,721 --> 00:30:15,761 Bleep as a little puppy, running around. 496 00:30:18,601 --> 00:30:21,561 - We even had a vegetable patch there... - Where did you have the bonfires? 497 00:30:43,081 --> 00:30:44,641 I'd start here, if I were you. 498 00:30:50,001 --> 00:30:51,081 OK, Dennis. 499 00:30:52,721 --> 00:30:56,041 You're now gonna be taken to Herne Hill where you will stay whilst you're on remand. 500 00:30:56,641 --> 00:30:58,001 Not back to the station? 501 00:30:59,161 --> 00:31:00,321 No, I'm afraid not. 502 00:31:01,801 --> 00:31:02,841 OK, let's go. 503 00:31:10,281 --> 00:31:12,321 I just spoke to some of the boys from Willesden. 504 00:31:12,961 --> 00:31:15,521 So, they say, rumour has it, Nilsen left the Police 505 00:31:15,601 --> 00:31:18,121 because he was caught masturbating in the morgue. 506 00:31:18,521 --> 00:31:19,521 No. 507 00:31:20,641 --> 00:31:21,841 Makes you uneasy, don't it? 508 00:31:22,481 --> 00:31:24,561 How much we're relying on him to tell us the truth. 509 00:31:26,001 --> 00:31:28,841 It was here, outside Hornsea Police Station 510 00:31:28,921 --> 00:31:31,801 that Police confirmed that Dennis Andrew Nilsen... 511 00:31:32,521 --> 00:31:36,481 has been charged with the first of, what is said to be, multiple murders. 512 00:31:37,001 --> 00:31:40,001 On Wednesday morning, officers were called to an address... 513 00:31:40,081 --> 00:31:41,441 Can you help me with this? 514 00:31:41,521 --> 00:31:43,137 ...to investigate suspicious fragments found in a drain. 515 00:31:43,161 --> 00:31:44,161 Brian? 516 00:31:45,161 --> 00:31:46,521 Oh, sorry. 517 00:31:46,601 --> 00:31:48,777 On analysis there were proved to be human 518 00:31:48,801 --> 00:31:50,561 and an investigation was opened. 519 00:31:51,281 --> 00:31:52,241 What's happened? 520 00:31:52,242 --> 00:31:54,642 Oh, it's a multiple killer in London. 521 00:31:54,801 --> 00:31:56,881 ...by the name of Dennis Nilsen with murder. 522 00:31:57,241 --> 00:32:00,601 It's being reported that he was caught by the discovery of blocked drains 523 00:32:00,681 --> 00:32:03,361 that were filled with the remains of human flesh 524 00:32:03,441 --> 00:32:06,057 - that Nilsen had flushed down the lavatory. - I have to go to work. 525 00:32:06,081 --> 00:32:08,561 It is also being reported that his victims were men 526 00:32:08,641 --> 00:32:12,601 that Nilsen has lured back to his flat on the sense of promised frivolity. 527 00:33:08,281 --> 00:33:10,201 - Mr Sinclair. - Yes. 528 00:33:10,281 --> 00:33:12,361 My name is Detective Chief Inspector Peter Jay. 529 00:33:13,121 --> 00:33:15,481 Are you the parent of Stephen Sinclair? 530 00:33:16,001 --> 00:33:19,801 Before you say any more Officer, Stephen doesn't live here anymore. 531 00:33:19,881 --> 00:33:22,801 He hasn't done since he started stealing from us to fund his habit. 532 00:33:23,721 --> 00:33:25,217 We don't even know where he is, at the moment. 533 00:33:25,241 --> 00:33:26,401 Mr Sinclair, can we come in? 534 00:33:32,681 --> 00:33:33,841 Elizabeth? 535 00:33:35,561 --> 00:33:37,281 A few days ago, a body was found. 536 00:33:38,841 --> 00:33:42,641 That body, I'm... sorry to say, has now been confirmed as Stephen. 537 00:33:45,081 --> 00:33:47,761 A man has been charged in connection with his murder. 538 00:33:51,001 --> 00:33:52,081 His murder? 539 00:33:52,161 --> 00:33:55,961 I'm sorry to say, we can't give you much information at present 540 00:33:56,041 --> 00:33:57,641 but we will as soon as we can. 541 00:33:58,441 --> 00:34:01,161 In the meantime, if there's anything that you need... um... 542 00:34:01,241 --> 00:34:02,521 Can I see him? 543 00:34:04,481 --> 00:34:06,401 I'm afraid that's not possible, Mrs Sinclair. 544 00:34:07,001 --> 00:34:09,281 But surely we need to identify him. 545 00:34:10,801 --> 00:34:12,161 He's already been identified. 546 00:34:12,681 --> 00:34:13,801 But how? 547 00:34:14,761 --> 00:34:16,081 Has somebody come in to see him? 548 00:34:18,281 --> 00:34:19,641 I want to see him. 549 00:34:21,121 --> 00:34:22,801 Maybe somebody's made a mistake. 550 00:34:22,881 --> 00:34:24,561 Mrs Sinclair. It's Stephen. 551 00:34:27,881 --> 00:34:30,441 I can't tell you how sorry I am to be sure of that. 552 00:34:33,041 --> 00:34:34,361 But you don't want to see him. 553 00:34:36,241 --> 00:34:37,321 Not like this. 554 00:34:40,841 --> 00:34:42,641 I told him something like this would happen. 555 00:34:43,721 --> 00:34:44,921 But that drug... 556 00:34:45,721 --> 00:34:46,721 it changed him. 557 00:34:47,121 --> 00:34:49,321 There was nothing we could do, was there, love? 558 00:34:49,761 --> 00:34:50,761 No. 559 00:34:53,161 --> 00:34:56,241 He wouldn't listen to us, no matter how hard we tried. 560 00:34:58,641 --> 00:35:01,601 He just thought of us as a hotel, or a bank... 561 00:35:02,601 --> 00:35:04,321 or a prison. 562 00:35:04,481 --> 00:35:05,641 Not now, Neil. 563 00:35:14,521 --> 00:35:15,561 I'm sorry. 564 00:35:23,721 --> 00:35:25,121 Brian? 565 00:35:25,681 --> 00:35:26,681 Yeah. 566 00:35:31,561 --> 00:35:32,641 Oh, thank you. 567 00:35:34,401 --> 00:35:36,081 - Anything good? - Oh no, not really. 568 00:35:36,161 --> 00:35:38,481 It's just all so salacious... 569 00:35:38,881 --> 00:35:40,401 He just looks so ordinary. 570 00:35:40,641 --> 00:35:43,841 Like someone you'd walk past in the street, or meet in a bank. 571 00:35:44,841 --> 00:35:47,281 You see, that's what makes the whole thing so intriguing. 572 00:35:47,721 --> 00:35:51,961 This dichotomy between this seemingly normal, unobtrusive civil servant 573 00:35:52,321 --> 00:35:54,881 and the nature of his crimes. 574 00:35:54,961 --> 00:35:56,881 It just seems so hard to fathom. 575 00:35:57,441 --> 00:35:58,761 What's there to fathom? 576 00:35:58,921 --> 00:36:02,841 Well, what makes most of us go one way with our lives, and others, like Nilsen 577 00:36:03,281 --> 00:36:05,681 go so far in the opposite direction? 578 00:36:06,921 --> 00:36:08,241 Probably because he's evil. 579 00:36:10,321 --> 00:36:11,361 I'm going to be late. 580 00:36:12,241 --> 00:36:13,641 See you tonight. 581 00:36:17,201 --> 00:36:19,801 The man currently being questioned by police 582 00:36:19,881 --> 00:36:23,281 is a 37-year-old civil servant, Andrew Nilsen 583 00:36:23,561 --> 00:36:26,041 known to his colleagues at work as "Des". 584 00:36:26,601 --> 00:36:30,001 For the past six months, he's been working here at the Manpower Services Commission 585 00:36:30,201 --> 00:36:31,881 in London's Kentish Town. 586 00:36:32,401 --> 00:36:34,961 I understand that he is also a former policeman 587 00:36:35,121 --> 00:36:38,201 having been in the force for about a year in the early seventies. 588 00:36:39,121 --> 00:36:41,657 - Really surprised. - Where did they get the photo from? 589 00:36:41,681 --> 00:36:43,521 - Not us. - Probably robbed it. 590 00:36:43,601 --> 00:36:47,481 If I find out any of you tipped them off about him being ex-police 591 00:36:47,561 --> 00:36:50,361 I'll personally drag you to the fucking committee myself! 592 00:36:51,361 --> 00:36:52,441 D'you hear me? 593 00:36:53,401 --> 00:36:54,921 We are in blackout. 594 00:36:55,001 --> 00:36:57,681 That means you don't mention his name outside this station. 595 00:36:57,761 --> 00:37:00,881 Not to your wives, your mistresses, your friends down the pub... 596 00:37:01,081 --> 00:37:02,081 you understand? 597 00:37:04,241 --> 00:37:07,481 This man killed on our patch for four years. 598 00:37:08,961 --> 00:37:11,561 We find every name, and we charge and convict him 599 00:37:11,641 --> 00:37:13,441 with every single fucking one. 600 00:37:14,921 --> 00:37:16,441 He gets away with nothing. 601 00:37:24,841 --> 00:37:25,841 Get rid. 602 00:37:40,081 --> 00:37:41,441 Come in. 603 00:37:43,121 --> 00:37:44,841 This gentleman is here about Nilsen. 604 00:37:45,401 --> 00:37:46,761 He wants to talk to you, Guv. 605 00:37:48,761 --> 00:37:49,801 What can I do for ya? 606 00:37:51,161 --> 00:37:52,841 Dennis Nilsen tried to kill me. 607 00:37:55,881 --> 00:37:56,881 Where did you meet him? 608 00:37:57,241 --> 00:37:59,241 A pub. The Golden Lion. 609 00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:01,601 Dean Street, Soho. 610 00:38:02,081 --> 00:38:03,321 But, I'm not gay. 611 00:38:03,961 --> 00:38:04,961 No, of course. 612 00:38:06,121 --> 00:38:10,761 He was with a group of people, who I assume were his friends. 613 00:38:12,281 --> 00:38:15,481 After last orders, he said we should go back to his for a drink. 614 00:38:16,641 --> 00:38:18,241 I thought he meant all of us... 615 00:38:18,801 --> 00:38:21,081 but it was only the two of us that went. 616 00:38:22,241 --> 00:38:26,641 I must have passed out, because when I came to... 617 00:38:27,121 --> 00:38:31,241 he'd tied my ankles together with his tie, and... 618 00:38:32,361 --> 00:38:34,961 he was strangling me with mine. 619 00:38:36,841 --> 00:38:41,001 I managed to... fight him off and get him to the ground. 620 00:38:42,161 --> 00:38:45,761 He then started screaming "Take my money!" 621 00:38:45,921 --> 00:38:47,321 "Take my money!" 622 00:38:47,401 --> 00:38:49,321 Like I was the one attacking him! 623 00:38:50,001 --> 00:38:52,321 Sorry, uh... when was this? 624 00:38:53,841 --> 00:38:54,921 Three years ago. 625 00:38:56,041 --> 00:38:57,841 I'd put it to the back of my mind. 626 00:38:58,601 --> 00:38:59,601 Moved on. 627 00:39:00,401 --> 00:39:02,801 But when I saw his face in the newspaper, it all came back. 628 00:39:04,601 --> 00:39:06,361 Why didn't you go to the police at the time? 629 00:39:07,121 --> 00:39:08,161 I did. 630 00:39:08,721 --> 00:39:09,721 Straight away. 631 00:39:10,841 --> 00:39:13,081 They took me back there. They were there for... 632 00:39:13,721 --> 00:39:14,881 five minutes... 633 00:39:16,161 --> 00:39:19,801 spoke to Nilsen, and bought his story that it was a "lovers' tiff". 634 00:39:20,721 --> 00:39:22,601 It wasn't something they wanted to be around. 635 00:39:24,081 --> 00:39:27,161 They even apologised to him for wasting his time, and sent me on my way. 636 00:39:32,241 --> 00:39:33,481 OK, um... 637 00:39:35,081 --> 00:39:37,041 You're just gonna have to go from the beginning. 638 00:39:38,321 --> 00:39:39,441 Leave nothing out. 639 00:40:00,721 --> 00:40:02,801 So, how many of these has he written to you? 640 00:40:02,881 --> 00:40:05,281 Well, the fourth came today... 641 00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:07,881 and, uh, there's a... there's a poem in the last one. 642 00:40:12,081 --> 00:40:15,601 "Lives of sorrow, Bones of the dead 643 00:40:15,681 --> 00:40:18,401 Given by the sea, To Fitful Head". 644 00:40:19,321 --> 00:40:20,761 It's so... sensitive. 645 00:40:20,881 --> 00:40:23,641 Well, quite. Uh, you wouldn't think by reading that 646 00:40:23,801 --> 00:40:25,201 that this man strangled young men 647 00:40:25,281 --> 00:40:27,521 and then disposed of them down the lavatory, would you? 648 00:40:27,601 --> 00:40:29,321 How is the prison allowing you to meet him? 649 00:40:29,841 --> 00:40:32,001 Uh, he said he'd put me on the visitors list. 650 00:40:32,081 --> 00:40:34,401 Although, they're probably not aware that I'm a writer. 651 00:40:35,121 --> 00:40:36,241 Well, aren't you frightened? 652 00:40:36,561 --> 00:40:37,841 No, no, he's... 653 00:40:38,481 --> 00:40:41,041 he's hardly going to jump over the desk and strangle me, is he? 654 00:40:41,121 --> 00:40:42,361 No, but still. 655 00:40:43,001 --> 00:40:44,481 Do you think you'll shake his hand? 656 00:40:44,601 --> 00:40:46,521 No. No, I-I-I shouldn't think so. 657 00:40:51,081 --> 00:40:54,361 - Name? - Uh, Brian Masters to see Dennis Nilsen. 658 00:41:08,881 --> 00:41:10,521 You find us OK? 659 00:41:23,081 --> 00:41:24,121 Do you smoke, Brian? 660 00:41:25,761 --> 00:41:26,761 Yes, I do. 661 00:41:28,681 --> 00:41:29,841 Ah... 662 00:41:31,481 --> 00:41:34,001 You can smoke as many real fags in this room as you like, yeah? 663 00:41:34,241 --> 00:41:35,841 Out there, you're only allowed tobacco. 664 00:41:40,441 --> 00:41:41,561 Yeah. 665 00:41:44,761 --> 00:41:47,201 They say capital punishment's dead, but Her Majesty manages 666 00:41:47,281 --> 00:41:48,641 to find her little ways, y'know. 667 00:41:49,761 --> 00:41:51,921 Yes. 668 00:41:52,121 --> 00:41:53,841 I read your book, Brian. 669 00:41:54,561 --> 00:41:56,401 "The Dukes...", uh... 670 00:41:57,201 --> 00:42:00,961 "...Origin, ennoblement and the history of 26 families". 671 00:42:01,401 --> 00:42:02,761 Are you from aristocracy? 672 00:42:02,921 --> 00:42:05,081 No. No, I'm not. 673 00:42:05,881 --> 00:42:07,641 You're from that kind of world, though, eh? 674 00:42:08,481 --> 00:42:09,721 I bet you're a bloody Tory. 675 00:42:11,361 --> 00:42:13,121 I'm not sure that's entirely relevant. 676 00:42:13,641 --> 00:42:16,761 I'm suppose I'm just... I'm not entirely sure of your intentions as of yet. 677 00:42:17,801 --> 00:42:21,161 Yeah? Your letters sounded genuine, but now we are sat opposite each other... 678 00:42:21,961 --> 00:42:24,561 I worry. I have judged myself 679 00:42:24,761 --> 00:42:28,401 more harshly than any casual observer or any court ever could. 680 00:42:29,321 --> 00:42:31,921 Aren't you the one judging me, Mr Nilsen? 681 00:42:33,361 --> 00:42:34,361 How's that? 682 00:42:34,401 --> 00:42:39,161 Well, you hear my accent and you assume that you know everything about me. 683 00:42:39,241 --> 00:42:41,137 No, I'm simply stating it's obvious where you come from. 684 00:42:41,161 --> 00:42:42,121 I'm not... 685 00:42:42,122 --> 00:42:43,922 It's no bad thing. 686 00:42:44,001 --> 00:42:46,641 I just like to know where I stand with the person I am talking to. 687 00:42:47,281 --> 00:42:48,281 Well, I was... 688 00:42:48,681 --> 00:42:50,721 I was brought up on the Old Kent Road. 689 00:42:52,561 --> 00:42:55,001 You don't sound like you were brought up on the Old Kent Road. 690 00:42:55,161 --> 00:42:57,161 Well, I was lucky. I got an education. 691 00:42:57,481 --> 00:43:00,481 Ah, is that where the accent comes from then? It's your education is it? 692 00:43:01,721 --> 00:43:03,601 You know, I was under the impression... 693 00:43:03,681 --> 00:43:08,601 that I was here to discuss writing a book about you. 694 00:43:08,721 --> 00:43:09,721 Um... 695 00:43:10,121 --> 00:43:11,801 I'm really not that interesting. 696 00:43:12,321 --> 00:43:15,801 Why would you want to write about a monster like me? 697 00:43:15,881 --> 00:43:17,457 Do you consider yourself to be a monster? 698 00:43:17,481 --> 00:43:19,521 - Well, have you read the paper? - Mm, of course. 699 00:43:21,441 --> 00:43:25,361 It truly amazes me, people's attraction to the macabre 700 00:43:26,321 --> 00:43:29,881 cos all of us have skeletons rattling around in our cupboards, y'know. 701 00:43:30,081 --> 00:43:34,161 Secrets they would never dare to tell to anyone. 702 00:43:34,321 --> 00:43:36,481 So, what comes is this... 703 00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:41,121 flood of self-righteous public condemnation 704 00:43:41,361 --> 00:43:44,601 whilst, simultaneously, everybody's talking about it over and over and over. 705 00:43:44,961 --> 00:43:47,121 They're consuming it and indulging in it 706 00:43:47,201 --> 00:43:49,657 - but at arm's length, which is all very well. - I'm not here to do that. 707 00:43:49,681 --> 00:43:55,401 But, meanwhile, I'm left here to rot, whilst others make profits at my expense. 708 00:43:55,481 --> 00:43:58,881 Well, if-if you want some money from this, I'm sure we can come to some arrangement. 709 00:43:58,961 --> 00:44:00,681 I don't want a penny from any of this. 710 00:44:00,841 --> 00:44:03,601 I just don't want those poor men exploited. 711 00:44:05,201 --> 00:44:09,641 Well, I'm not here to exploit you or those seventeen young men that you... 712 00:44:10,001 --> 00:44:11,921 Fifteen! It was fifteen. 713 00:44:12,561 --> 00:44:14,201 It wasn't 17, it was 15. 714 00:44:15,521 --> 00:44:17,401 See, now, if you're gonna get your information 715 00:44:17,481 --> 00:44:21,041 from those red top fuckers telling lies about me every day 716 00:44:21,321 --> 00:44:22,961 we might as well say goodbye now, Brian. 717 00:44:24,241 --> 00:44:29,321 I have a responsibility for my story and theirs to be told correctly. 718 00:44:29,801 --> 00:44:31,681 Well, I also have that responsibility. 719 00:44:33,521 --> 00:44:37,921 You know, I'm... I have no want to write some two-bit horror novel 720 00:44:38,401 --> 00:44:39,721 with ghoulish adjectives. 721 00:44:40,281 --> 00:44:44,041 I'm not here to elaborate or expose or all excuse. 722 00:44:44,481 --> 00:44:46,361 I'm here to comprehend 723 00:44:46,441 --> 00:44:48,241 because the law cannot comprehend... 724 00:44:49,121 --> 00:44:51,121 beyond the question of guilty or innocent. 725 00:44:52,721 --> 00:44:54,201 And how do you propose to do that? 726 00:44:55,841 --> 00:44:56,841 By listening. 727 00:44:57,601 --> 00:45:01,761 I want to know about your upbringing, your teenage years. 728 00:45:02,121 --> 00:45:03,241 Your time in the army. 729 00:45:04,441 --> 00:45:05,441 All of it. 730 00:45:06,201 --> 00:45:08,201 Because only by doing that... 731 00:45:09,481 --> 00:45:11,281 do we get the whole picture... 732 00:45:12,681 --> 00:45:13,881 Mr Nilsen. 733 00:45:17,881 --> 00:45:19,361 I must warn you, Brian... 734 00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:24,041 you will find a full inquiry into my life and deeds... 735 00:45:25,361 --> 00:45:26,401 distressing. 736 00:45:27,801 --> 00:45:28,881 I'm aware of that. 737 00:45:29,841 --> 00:45:30,841 Well, then... 738 00:45:31,161 --> 00:45:36,681 I pass the burden of my past and deeds onto your shoulders. 739 00:45:41,241 --> 00:45:43,681 So, make sure you bring an extra pack of fags next time, eh? 740 00:45:47,121 --> 00:45:48,121 Oh. 741 00:45:49,401 --> 00:45:50,601 Please call me Des.